Paypal terms of service

(Aug. 27, 2007) Today I got another anonymous no-reply email from Paypal that they’ve removed my website from their listings of shops for violating terms of service. I’ve had some weird anonymous calls from people who claim to be under 18 and wishing to purchase “forbidden” items with Paypal, and I’ve always refused their business, both because of their age and because of the items they wished to purchase. Not good enough, I suppose. I’m assuming these were auditors from Paypal itself, but regardless, I have not and am not doing those transactions as enumerated below.

So, here it is, as best as I can understand their policies:

I will ONLY accept Paypal for martial arts TRAINING equipment, such as escrima TRAINING sticks (any size) and escrima TRAINING blades, which have no sharp edges or points, so they can be used for SAFE TRAINING, and for my flutes. Any other items on my website, such as pocket knives which may be legal and commonly available at places like gas stations, hardware and even grocery stores, will not be sold through Paypal. Those items will require a check or money order by mail. If you have questions about what I will accept by Paypal, feel free to contact me.

The Story

In late 2006 Paypal suddenly suspended my account for violations of its weapons policies because I had “blowguns, throwing knives and stars, and batons” listed. As I’ve never actually had any online sales of any blowguns, stars or throwing knives, I had no problem complying by posting this statement that I will not accept Paypal for these items. I should have simply pulled them all from my site, I suppose, to prevent “de-listing”, but I had bought some and had them in stock and thought naively that not taking Paypal for those items would suffice. Regardless, this page is to distinguish my escrima products from anything else that might appear on my site of which Paypal might disapprove (on here, but not elsewhere ….)

It still seems quite contradictory to me that items which can be sold through Ebay, which owns Paypal, and that use Paypal for transactions, are allegedly banned on Paypal itself. Allegedly, because on July 29, 2008 I went to Paypal Shops and typed in “throwing knives”and got a bunch of listings similar to what got me kicked out of their stores. I then tried “martial arts” and followed a link that took me to Ebay, where “throwing knives” got me 650 listings!

So why was I singled out? Who knows. Is it that I don’t pay them enough fees through my business? “Ebay is a separate company” is the line Paypal reps gave me. Whatever …. I’ve pulled any remaining questionable stuff (like tiny toy stars) off my site now, as they are irrelevant to my business anyhow. I still have some throwing knives and blowguns on a shelf, but I don’t and won’t accept payment through Paypal for those items if I ever sell any.

As for “batons,” I had a series of email exchanges with that appear to have been with several different Paypal watchdogs, all anonymous and each with a differing understanding of Paypal’s policies, but I was told by at least a couple that “escrima sticks are exempt”. I pointed out that my site has “escrima” in the title, that I’ve taught escrima since 1986, represented the U.S.A. as a member of a national escrima team, and my sticks are all labeled for escrima training. Nowhere on my site do I label or advertise my products as batons or suitable for anything other than escrima practice.

Furthermore, having a California state-issued baton certificate, I know that none of my sticks meet the requirements for non-sworn security personnel. Cops can carry anything their department allows, but to my knowledge no one is using my sticks for law enforcement purposes, though I have trained numerous police officers in escrima over the years.

Anyway, Paypal lifted the original suspension once I removed the “forbidden” items and my account is currently working. Hopefully there will be no problems in the future but Paypal agents’ anonymity make accountability hard to verify.

While the suggestion of not taking Paypal has definitely hurt a business I’ve been running for over 20 years, I’m still here and developing unique new products. I’ve been on the leading edge of developing unique products since I introduced plastic training sticks with my HITS in 1989, earning induction into the U.S. Kali Association Hall of Fame. As the originator of synthetic escrima training sticks, I’ve seen competitors copy my ideas. Virtually all plastic escrima sticks are clones of what I offer, but usually at higher prices and never with the variety available here. A few vendors have stuck around, but most have just come and gone.

Now in 2008 I’m again leading the art in a new direction, introducing the only line of hi-impact plastic replicas of antique Filipino swords for training available anywhere! These are now being used and endorsed by such leading members of the martial arts community as Grandmaster Remy Presas Jr., Grandmaster Vincent Cabales, Hanshi Sid Campbell, Master Alex France, Master Darren Tibon and other top practitioners and teachers of the Filipino martial arts.

Jeff “Stickman” Finder